In this episode Zurc and Timothy introduce their wonderful spouses. We get an extremely rare glimpse into the married life of pedophiles. This is a unique episode and Timothy and Zurc are greatly indebted to their wonderful partners Uhura and Newt respectively.
We cover how we told our spouses about our orientation, how our spouses responded, Timothy's husband and Zurc's wife get a chance to talk about their unique experiences together. It's really quite fun. It was really meaningful to everyone involved in this episode to have this opportunity and we are excited to share it with you!
In this episode Zurc and Timothy introduce their wonderful spouses. We get an extremely rare glimpse into the married life of pedophiles. This is a unique episode and Timothy and Zurc are greatly indebted to their wonderful partners Uhura and Newt respectively.
We cover how we told our spouses about our orientation, how our spouses responded, Timothy's husband and Zurc's wife get a chance to talk about their unique experiences together. It's really quite fun. It was really meaningful to everyone involved in this episode to have this opportunity and we are excited to share it with you!
Good morning, everybody. It's morning where I am and welcome back to untreated. My name is Bly read. Also with me
Zurc Bolzano:is Zurc, hey Bly, good morning everyone and
Timothy:hay is for horses. This is Timothy.
Bly:Okay, good. Everyone is almost present and correct. Although seldom correct, obviously, this episode should be interesting. We have with us today Zurc and Timothy's partners who are called Uhura and Newton. We will... Not in real life obviously, we will introduce them and then we'll talk about some questions that we think are interesting about these unique relationships.
Uhura:Yes, hello, thanks. This is Zurc's partner Uhura.
Newt:Hello, this is Tim's husband, Newt or Newton.
Zurc Bolzano:So this is Zurc. And I'm pretty sure this is the first time in the history of the internet that pedophiles and their spouses have gone on the air in any fashion to discuss these issues. So I'll hand that wonderful statement off to Timothy.
Timothy:This is Timothy, and I'm pretty sure this is the first time broadcasting in the history ever.
Zurc Bolzano:It's not... Is it the first time broadcasting anything ever though?
Timothy:I dunno?
Bly:Yeah, this is.... This is the beginning of radio. It's actually quite like being present at the birth of speech as they say.
Zurc Bolzano:Truly
Bly:Well nevermind, let's just say it's the first time in history because it says here in the script that that sounds pretty badass, but I'm British, so I can't say that. It will have to sound pretty bad ass instead.
Timothy:No, you have to say it sounds bloody amazing.
Bly:Bloody Amazing, right? Okay, so Zurc and Timothy, why don't you introduce your partners for them? And then they can wait to speak for themselves. Zurc ?
Zurc Bolzano:Oh, okay. Yeah, sure. So, my my partner is called Uhura. And she's here. We're both Big Star Trek fans, hence the name. And her last name is Kovalevsky. And I don't know if you've noticed, but my name is Zurc Bolzano. Hers is Uhura Kovalevsky. So both have like creative first names. And then a last name that somebody famous for math. So that's kind of cool. I think. Famous
Uhura:I mean, your mansplanations were okay, but you forgot to mention that Kovalevsky and Uhura are both extremely a talented woman and myself being a feminist that is essential to their story. I am a feminist. I care deeply about women pioneers.
Zurc Bolzano:Fascinating. I've always identified more with Spock.
Uhura:Yes, I know dear.... Bly, I hope that the love between us is palatable.
Bly:I don't know about palatable because that would mean I'd have to eat it. But I think it's absolutely adorable. Your last name for mathematicians. And I'm glad there are some AmongUs who... Who adore math! Although we say maths over here, by the way.
Zurc Bolzano:Yeah, you plural. You plural, the math. Math level. Math lovers are definitely AmongUs.
Bly:We actually, we multiply the maths. Okay, sorry, I've gone right over your line there.
Zurc Bolzano:Oh, you've gone over my line. Oh, you wrote I don't get it. Oh, I'm supposed to say yes. Math lovers are AmongUs. That's a video game.
Bly:You know... I don't.... I think....
Zurc Bolzano:Maybe that's too out of right field. I don't know.
Bly:Possibly, possibly...
Zurc Bolzano:I don't know what I was thinking,,,
Bly:Why don't we back up?
Timothy:Right field or left field? I thought video games were more a liberal thing.
Zurc Bolzano:Yeah, that's what I meant to say. Now.... I don't know!
Bly:Timothy, what about you? Why don't you introduce your partner? And also can you explain whether you're a math fan math, as we say over here? And do you do calculus just for fun?
Timothy:I can't do calculus, but I'm not an imposter. So don't object to me, please. My partner goes by Newton and he comes from a religious family. We met online, and he's a sci fi nerd. Like me. We're both fans of Big Bang Theory and Newton Tiberius Fury was the closest thing to a variation of TMS that we could think of. Tiberius is the full name of one of our reptile children, a very a fearless boa constrictor named Malfurion. We're a big quirky family.
Newt:We sure are dear, we sure are....
Bly:Honestly, that's so spontaneous and just delicious and beautiful. So we love that.
Newt:I would say I am somewhat a math lover... Though I am not very good at calculus, but much to the disappointment of a couple of my family members who are math teachers. But you know, we do what we can. Yeah.
Bly:But has to be the motto for these relationships. Certainly. We do what we can Yeah, absolutely.
Zurc Bolzano:Oh my god for real.
Bly:So just to sum up, we have one cis-heterosexual couple One cis-homosexual couple, but we all obviously share something. Everyone here, including myself, obviously has experienced pedophilia, either directly or indirectly. And I think in this episode we're gonna try and flesh that out a little bit. We, we have a tradition on this podcast even though this is only episode one. It's already a
Zurc Bolzano:Yes. Ready Spaghetti!
Bly:Now, it doesn't work. It doesn't work in a British accent because we pronounce our T's. But we have to say it because it's a tradition already. So what do you say? Why don't we get started? Zurc?
Zurc Bolzano:Yes, ready, spaghetti?
Bly:I need it from everybody. Otherwise, it's not official!
Zurc Bolzano:But at the same time, guys, come on, okay. Okay, we have to count down 321.
Newt:Ready Spaghetti!
Bly:That was like the audio version of spaghetti. You can edit that beautifully together later on. And the audience will never know that everyone said it all at completely different times!
Zurc Bolzano:I'll edited together, it'll be funny.
Bly:I'm gonna, I'm gonna move on now at this stage. The first question, today we want to discuss is how did you tell your partner about your orientation? And so Zurc, could you tell us your story, please?
Zurc Bolzano:Alright, so my story sort of goes like this, probably back a decade ago, I received this diagnosis for pedophilia, I wasn't really sure what to do about it, I was pretty ashamed of it, I thought there wouldn't really ever be anyone that I would be able to meet. Because I didn't think a relationship while hiding something like that really made a lot of sense. So I eventually went to sort of felt something special there. I also noticed that she was open minded, and that she just loved people. And even when I poked around and tried to tease out some animosity towards various identities, her responses were always stern, and that we should love others. After we got married. I slowly broke the news to her over a course of maybe three years. So first, I told her, I had this run with Uhura and during the run we started getting into talking as we as we usually do, I explained that I had a close friend who told me that they were a pedophile, and that, you know, they had never acted on these thoughts, but lived in sort of the state of fear. And Uhura expressed some sympathy for that person. And I think at that moment, I sort of felt comfortable telling her... So we feel if if I experienced these attractions, and there was more silence that lasts even longer. But eventually, she told me that she would still love me. And that we would, we would talk more about it. So I did it. I summoned all the courage that I had. And I, I told her, I think the first thing that she said was that she loved me. And I told her, I loved her too. And over the next few weeks, we knowledge between us. For me, that improved our relationship immensely. I sort of don't feel like I'm hiding anything, makes sex between us more enjoyable. And it makes it so I can sort of see myself as a good father and capable of not repeating mistakes that previous generations have made. So what do you think Uhura? Does that does that about capture it?
Uhura:Yeah, I think so. I think for me, the most important thing to remember in all of this is that you are still the same person that you've always been, you know, you've always had this part of your identity that has been there. And just because I didn't know about it until you told me doesn't mean that it never existed. So I think the most important part was just remembering that you were or ever act on this attraction that you feel. And I think that was important for me to realize that you didn't want to hurt anybody who didn't want to act out on these attractions, but that this was part of who you are. And I think that makes it really virtuous in a way that you experience this and are never going to act on it. Because, you know, for one, it's illegal, but you just know you need
Bly:one thing that I noticed in what Zurc was saying Uhura, was that you have this immediate reaction, which wasn't like, you know, because some people do panic a little bit, and they sort of seek reassurances. And they, and they ask a lot of questions, but they don't necessarily immediately give that reassurance of saying, but by the way, I still love you. And it's all okay. I'm just thinking you know, what was going on for you at that moment?
Uhura:I think I was a little surprised to the subject had come up. And I was, you know, kind of waiting for him to tell me or something like that, that I was in my mind thinking, you know, if if he did tell me then, then what would be the best way to respond? And I knew that before I responded in a negative way immediately, then it would, it would hurt him in the long term. I think about when a I was thinking about that. And that the most beneficial thing that I could do for our long term relationship was to respond in a positive way.
Bly:Wow. I mean, but it's amazing that you had the sort of self possession of that moment that you, you were you were able to do that. Was that sort of, was that an instinctive thing? Is that sort of naturally where we're, obviously you said, you had that experience before where you didn't go that way. But yet, this is pedophilia. So in many ways, people would expect you to be like, more shocked,
Uhura:Right? Yeah, I think that, looking back on how I reacted to my sibling coming out, you know, it really changed how I view you know, sexuality, and all sorts of identities and stuff like that, because people can change these part of their identities. And I think the most important thing that we can do is love them no matter what.
Bly:That's brilliant to hear. And, and did you sort of, one of the question is, if you sort of had thoughts of what the implications were for you in that moment?
Uhura:Yes, I did. It was hard to think about, you know, our, our sexual relationship, because I wasn't sure what that meant for that. I think it's, it's been, you know, totally fine. And we figured that out, and it's not been a problem. I, you know, I needed reassurance eventually, that, you know, that Zurc was still attracted to me, and that, you know, everything that we had was real. I did
Bly:Okay, that's, that's great. Thank you for sharing that. If we can ask Timothy to describe the same thing, if you could tell us a story.
Timothy:Yeah. Ok. So... Me. Years and years ago, I was very concerned about my attractions to children. And I wound up trying to kill myself because I thought I was a risk to children. And in that process, I got recommended to a treatment program. And during that program, among lots of things that I was working on, I started dating again. And to be honest, I had kind of given up on dating. At on the first date. And that turned into like four or five hours. And so the first month went really well and we both really liked each other. And I told Newt about my attractions and treatment when we were about a month to a month and a half into dating. And by that point, we had already talked about political, religious and ethical values. And I raised the issue of rehabilitation of people basically didn't want to harm kids and that I'm committed to making sure that I stay mentally healthy and stay away from my reasons and triggers. And I told him because to me, a solid part of any relationship is about healthy communication. Newt, did you have any, anything to add?
Newt:I don't think it was one month. I think you told us this, told me in like four months after our relationship?
Timothy:I dunno you know... It was like February or March wasn't it?
Newt:No it was in the summer.
Timothy:Really?
Newt:Yeah. It was hot that day.
Timothy:And we did go to a Culvers so...
Newt:I'll just ... I'll now tell you about my perspective. I a little background, I was brought up in a family where they're very kind and compassionate and religious people. But they, we do follow the public view of things. And one of the issues when you're growing up, associated with this is you, you hear pedophile and you assume that pedophile and child molester are the exact same thing. I
Timothy:I'm sorry.
Newt:He told me. I did not. I wish I reacted the way Uhura did. I really too. I, I felt like the ceiling was crashing above me. I was in shock. I know I was very quiet. I remember being very quiet most of the time. And I basically just let Tim talk.
Timothy:Wasn't there something about a milkshake?
Newt:Yes, I was a little angry, too. I was very angry and confused. Part of the reason why mostly was it's like, okay, does this mean, you're treating me as a substitute lover? Because you can't have the real thing or what's going on here. And so, yeah, at one point I was considering throwing my drink in his face. I didn't!
Timothy:No he did not.
Newt:And thank God, I did not do that. That night was not a very easy night to sleep. Well, when I said good. So I told him after he talked and explained everything about you know, he's got a plan. He's seen therapy, you know, working on advocacy, it's like, okay, I don't know where this is going. I like to miss a friend. Let's see where it goes from. Basically, that's, that's how I felt. But just see where this goes. Because I feel very comfortable with Tim. I'm happy with Tim. Let's see where this guy.
Bly:So So basically, you came to that conclusion, what did you then communicate back to him after you'd had that sleepless night?
Timothy:I told him, I said, You know what, we're going to have to take a couple steps back from relationship, just keep a watch, just because I need to really observe this. I told them, I would like to take a look at your advocacy work. I'd like to meet your psychologists get a better understanding of what you're doing. And that really helped rebuild our relationship.
Bly:So one interesting thing that Tim was saying was that he and Zurc did the same thing. They introduced the topic via like hypotheticals and talking about sort of there are such people who do this. And that's come up a few times in coming out stories that I've heard as well. did that. It sounds like what you heard had like an effect, where she sort of it put her in mind of this as a possible
Timothy:No... I don't think there was any other way Tim could raise it. When he told me he actually told me straight out.
Bly:Right. Yeah.
Newt:He did play with the ideas before our first month dating... you know... What are our philosophies, you know, where's our political views? It wasn't until months later that he's like, Okay.
Bly:Okay, so you didn't you didn't feel like the ground was prepared in quite the least it hadn't set off a little alarm in your head to say this is possible thing I might be told basically.
Timothy:Yeah, I had no idea that was gunna come.
Bly:You didn't think it was coming. That's interesting. And it's interesting that one thing you also talked about was, and Uhura mentioned this as well, was this sort of this thought of, you know, after you've heard the news from someone to suddenly think, Well, what does this mean for my status in this relationship, and you sort of had that fear, where you were a little bit worried about, you
Newt:Basically it was continuing the relationship and knowing that I am special to him.... He's really.... You know, the other thing is that he kept on confirming that, you know, it's not just, it's not just the physical attributes that he's attracted to with children, it's also, you know, my, my, my intelligence, my compassion, my personality, my interests, probably two, actually, fear, or, you know, assuming that's, that's what happened.
Timothy:Yeah, a little bit.
Newt:They are all played a huge role in establishing our connections. So I really, that really made it much easier to say, okay, maybe I'm overreacting a little on this whole thing.
Bly:And one other thing I noticed, actually, from both stories as well was that the the partner took a certain degree of control over the process after the coming out on happened. So in your case, you were said, right, we're going to step back, and we're going to reconsider things and just sort of take take enough time to sort of decide what's right at this point. And you obviously felt
Newt:Yes.
Bly:And was that sort of a feature of the relationships that have been established or had you not had to do that before,
Newt:I never felt like I ever had to take control of the relationship. Until then and it was more in terms of this is a, this is something that I need to do in order to figure out what's going on. So it....
Timothy:It is definitely a processing thing.
Newt:It was a processing thing yeah...
Timothy:Because in his case, especially his family was definitely a lot more prejudiced on a lot of different topics than he is. So I feel like a lot of that to were was kind of that collection value in the way you see things and the way your family sees things and the way I see things and how I was brought up to see. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay.
Bly:So yeah, so in some ways you were pausing partly for your own sake, but also, for the sake of understanding the whole situation, as it was going to relate to the rest of your life going forward. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's very interesting. Okay, we should ask, let's just talk a little bit about sort of how things progressed from there. So how the partners provide support to the maps and perhaps
Uhura:I think the most important thing that I do is we just talk about it. You know, it's not always like, sitting down and having a serious conversation about it. But just by talking about it, I also tried to be active on some of the forums that Zurc is active on, and I think that meant a lot to him. We also met in person with some people from the forum. And I think that meant a lot as well.
Bly:But that's interesting, you say, because I mean, a lot of people, you know, because these are success stories we're talking about today. A lot of people you know, who we hear from in the forums in those communities are often saying something like, I told somebody, and from that day forward, we've never discussed it since. So it's interesting that you kind of keep the topic in the air, you
Uhura:I think we both consciously do it just so that we always know that we're on the same page. And so that feels like if he doesn't need to talk about it, then he can, and if I need to talk about it, if I need reassurance that I can, I think that communicating about it, you know, throughout your relationship can be a really healthy way to manage that.
Bly:Do you we talked with news about him having thought about sort of what are the wider implications in other words, how does this fit in with my family? How does this fit in with, you know, the, the other people who are going to be involved as sort of bystanders If you liked the word ship that you have a lot of those thoughts when when you dealt with this the first time?
Uhura:I did. I think after I had processed it a little bit, I said, you know, we can't tell anybody about this. And at the time, he agreed, and I don't plan on telling anybody in my family, or any of my friends about this, just because the stigma is really strong. But yeah, we're thinking about the wider implications and our social group, and I find good for sure.
Bly:Is that quite a long way through that process? Or is it sort of still quite fresh? Oh,
Uhura:it's been a couple of months, since since I've kind of, you know, really processed everything and, and tried to make sense of it all?
Bly:Sure. Okay. So not massive, massive amounts of time. And it's interesting that you say that about secrets. Because like a lot of people, when we talk about carving out, you know, the understanding for LGBT q folk about coming out is that you come out and you're out, you know, it's just one sort of process. Especially Nowadays, people know that sometimes LGBTQ folks don't planned way. And you've made that decision that you're you, you're happy for it to stop here, does that feel like a burden that you're now sharing? And how does that make you feel, but the whole stigma thing?
Uhura:does feel like, I'm carrying a burden sometimes. But I know that, that this is the right thing to do. And that, you know, nobody else needs to know. I mean, if we decide later on that somebody should know, then of course, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think for now, you know, this is the best position for us. And I, you know, I do and, and that's one good thing about him
Bly:And it's really interesting that you've participated in the communities I'm in again, we have sort of, in the communities, we hear from people again, sometimes they've told a partner, but the partners, not, you know, the partner will stick with them, but they're not interested in sort of engaging with the community. What was it that sort of motivated you in that direction? And to go, if
Uhura:Sure. I think the way that that, you know, started describing this, this community, and you know, it's, it's a community of people who have committed not to act on these impulses that they have, and, and they're very hated for something that they can't change. And so I think I wanted to kind of be an advocate for that, you know, hey, nobody chooses this. Nobody would choose this, if you don't really, but so I think it was, it was just me trying to be an ally to these people who, who did not, didn't make this decision, and you are trying your best to live healthy for life.
Bly:Okay, and one other for you here. And I'm gonna ask new in a second, some of the same things. But for you, some people, if I don't know who's gonna listen to this, who might just never have encountered this subject before, but if there were such a person, a lot of them will be sort of probably shouting at the speaker. You know, what, why not just go and find someone else? What's your
Uhura:Well, if I didn't depend somebody else, then who's to say that they wouldn't also be part of this community? Who's to say that they wouldn't have, you know, other problems that they haven't dealt with? This is not the worst thing that somebody can be. And I think that that's kind of a signal. They think that this is the worst thing somebody could be. But I would much rather be with not generous with the time and resources? So I think that's what I would say.
Bly:Thank you. That's a great, great answer to hear actually. From my angle. Newt, do you on the same subject did obviously you did sort of have a moment where you paused and you considered like, is this the right thing to go ahead? What do you think made the difference for you?
Timothy:I really do not know just okay. After me is just, I felt really connected to Tim and felt so connected to him. We were able to bond, I would say, in six hours, you know, very quickly, you don't want to give up a relationship like that. Now, how many what kind of relationship it is, that's another thing entirely. But it's not something that you want to just give back. And this
Bly:And what sorts of things would you say that you do in addition to those those things that you think, you know, support him and and offer him that sort of your side of that? Yeah,
Timothy:I am greatly. Well, I shouldn't say greatly. I do feel strongly attached to Ted and his advocacy work, I've assisted him with some editing. I've reviewed some, something's a broken, it's like, you can't write needs to be much shorter.
Bly:We all need.
Timothy:Yeah. I'm also there find motional support there. This advocacy work is really hard for minor attracted persons. And then you find yourself in situations where you hear about friends that are part of your community that have to take long breaks, and that you're so connected to and it breaks your heart when they have to say, Okay, I need to leave for a while. Another thing is you. Like I know that you notice, all right, so that is part of it as part of my job. A job and I'm happy to do well, I shouldn't say have
Bly:a job. Yes.
Timothy:Yeah. But that's how I feel I'm here from I'm basically his third wheel, his crutch is his loving support.
Bly:That's great. Do you have outside of relationship? Do you have sort of places that you can go to receive that? Or is that sort of thing we would get mutually? Or? Where do you look for if it all gets a bit much for you?
Newt:It For Me, actually, we have told some of my family members about his pedophilia... My parents know, one of my sisters know, and her husband knows.
Bly:And is that via you telling them or is that via other methods.
Newt:Tim and I both telling them,
Timothy:yeah, we both sat down and decided, you know, we feel that the time is right to tell them. And here's why. For me, you know, it's been difficult watching him kind of deal with that kind of by himself. You know, there's there's not a whole lot of connections in the community, for partners. For one thing.... For another, the ones that do exist right now are kind of exclusive, that they're
Bly:But I think it's, as far as I know, and I'm not a partner, obviously. But I i don't think there's a partners group that I'm aware of. I don't know if anything else outside of that resources or anything, I think maybe before you act or something, I don't know. Maybe some of those are published on the web, but it does seem, was there anything that you could tend to new other than just sort of
Newt: Not really no. More or persons who are other victims or attend people who feel they are at risk like maps, and of course:studies for like parents or teachers? I think it's not really yet for families.
Timothy:Yeah, like the content that I've written so far and mostly been academic and preventative in nature that has been supportive. For, you know, families and friends...
Newt:I will said this, your psychologists did help me a lot too. That was good being able to talk to her and saying, Hey, I'm confused with this area. Help me out with this. She's very good. She's very good and helpful.
Timothy:Yeah, she definitely knows her stuff.
Bly:Okay, that's good to know. So, I was gonna ask also about this thing, cuz obviously, you guys have gone further. And you've actually started to tell all the people in the family have there been complications from that, where, you know, who knows, becomes quite an important or a complicated game, almost of like, this person can know, but that person can't know. And this person can know, but
Timothy:There have been people that, you know, we've preemptively said, you know, this person is like this, and we're simply not going to tell them because it would be too much for them. You know, where other people were, like, you know, yeah, they can probably know, at some point, but we don't feel that the time is right, yet. You know, things like that. So
Newt:Some people I haven't even told them, I'm gay yet.
Bly:Yeah.
Timothy:Yeah
Newt:And married yet. So you know, you can't tell those people.
Timothy:I know, there are some family members that think we're just roomates.
Bly:Well I often describe it as closets within closets, you know, you have like the closet where you are gay.
Zurc Bolzano:Yeah....
Bly:And then within that you might have a closet, I have another closet of being kinky within that. And then obviously, underneath all of that, you know, there's the business of being minor attracted, which is the big taboo. And some people have something else, you know. So it's interesting, I didn't give Tim a chance to talk about the way that Newt supports him. So I should, we should
Timothy:So Newt helps me mainly by pulling me away from advocacy, when, when I'm a little overwhelmed, and helps me balance my time better by doing more meaningful things, like snuggling with him and the reptiles. It, by the way, just a side tangent. If you've ever had a little bearded dragon, snuggling to you and burrow, it is the most adorable thing in the world.
Bly:I'm going to go away for this conversation and try it immediately. Even if I have to steal from next door, because it's the middle of the night here, unfortunately. Okay, that's good. Sorry, you were saying do go on.
Timothy:But yeah. So you know, just just having those moments versus, you know, I tend to be a workaholic. So, you know, having him pull me away to be like, hey, you want to go watch Big Bang Theory, or Danny Phantom or whatever.... ???
Newt:Let's go on a walk.
Timothy:Let's go on a walk. Yeah, although lately I've been pulling you into walks more than the other way around.
Newt:Well, you know, I've got work problems....
Timothy:Yep, yep, yep.... So you know, kind of pulling me away when I need to be pulled away. And, you know, giving me his perspective on top issues when I'm upset. You know, there are some situations that I run into, and, you know, there's obviously the confidentiality that goes with, you know, being married and, you know, knowing what is the sensitivity of these issues. And he acts as cried into him, because it is soft, you know, at the time, and there was somebody that I've known for a while, and he's done a lot of important work and to have him take a break like that, and not knowing if he was going to come back was really, it really sucked. He also tolerate my quirks flaws. And, dare I say, I get frustrated by stupid stuff. And he helps me calm down. I think we all do
Bly:Possibly. That's interesting. I'm going to now ask them each of the partners to comment on the other situation. In other words, you heard on, on what you've heard from Tim and newt, and and then after that, Newt took comment on the differences of like, between your situation and the other couple situation. And what that makes you think of? So you heard you have anything that you've sort of
Uhura:Yeah, one thing that stood out to me was that that you've told a lot of your family. I think that's pretty unique in this realm. I have I hope that someday, Zach, and I can get to that point with our families. I know that a couple members of his family know that right now, I can't imagine telling my family just because they, some of them are very conservative. And even the, the more advocacy work. I think it can be emotionally, and spiritually exhausting to be a part of this advocacy work if you don't have somebody who can pull you away from it and be like, hey, let's go do something else. Because otherwise you can get sucked into it. And it can be exhausting. So I think that's really good that you'll have each other for that.
Timothy:Yeah. I feel like you heard that you are more involved with the advocacy work. I mean, in the foreground in the chat room than I am. Like, I'm only in there like once. Hey, honey, I think you and MSC go take a look. Do I have to sometimes sometimes I just don't need to say anything right now. I'm tired. But I love that you're able to go out there. I've actually never met another person in Yeah, I've met a few people. At this point. Yeah. So I mean, that's pretty cool. Being involved in that part of the community a little more premium. Those incredibly neat. Okay. I wish.
Bly:So it's so it sounds like this? Well, a number of things that are going on here, and there's obviously that need to be in emotional support. We haven't really asked Actually, I haven't got it here in my notes. But perhaps we should ask Zurc as well, to sort of comment on the support aspect of it, because I don't think we've heard from you on that yet. In terms of how it feels to be
Zurc Bolzano:Yeah, I think Timothy and newt were saying, I think she sort of pulls me away. From I'm a workaholic, too. I mean, I work a lot. And so it's nice to have her come in. And, you know, tell me, let's go for a walk, you know, we go for a walk, and we talk about stuff. And usually I'm spaced out stuck thinking about work, but it's still very meaningful to me that we get to sort of spend
Bly:you have no access both of you to a holodeck. So yeah, right. So yeah, right. I mean, this actually chimes for me a lot as well, because I don't have a partner, and did used to have, but I, I've also recently noticed that if I spend a lot of time indoors, particularly engaged with the map stuff, you know, I can really go down very quickly, you are hearing from a lot of people with a lot of and when are we ever going to make progress on it, you know, especially when half of us are in absolute psychological pain, you know, and they, and they're talking about it. And I and I dragged myself out for a walk. That's what I've lately found myself doing. Just to get that it's interesting that that's come up this idea of getting outside into the real world, instead of this sort of virtual sometimes. Yeah, that's right. I
Zurc Bolzano:think. I think also, one other thing that's maybe pertinent or so I feel like she's sort of has helped me with trying to define what my boundaries are. Because, you know, in society, you don't really get explanation. The only the assumption is that you're, you know, Sis, heterosexual, etc, etc. It's completely normal. You don't get like, here's how to set up healthy boundaries, if very helpful
Bly:for us groups. So that gives rise to a sort of question I want to go back to the partners with actually which is about Whether things like as they've gone up to now, you've obviously described particular ways that you support each other, you're getting engaged in the community. And among other strategies, and new biopsy, sort of, you know, tackling with Tim, the family stuff and an offering
Uhura:Yeah, that's a great question. I think I think what we're doing right now is working for us. But you know, if that changes in the future if our circumstances change or something like that, and we need to reevaluate how I can best support Zurc in this, then yeah, well, we'll have to communicate about that really well and talk about it. But I don't know if there's anything in particular, I
Bly:And newt, is it sort of feeling sustainable to you in terms of how you're proceeding?
Timothy:I wouldn't change a thing right now. It is, yes, there's chaos, but it works. It works, we're comfortable with one another where we haven't lost any affection or admiration for one another. If anything, I've been more important. You know, obviously, the key to our relationship to do is communication, we talk about things, a lot of what's going on, well, he tells me what he can't about pretty good about where we're at.
Bly:And Uhura, is there sort of one thing that stands out to you that, you know, but it's sort of your observation on how things are?
Uhura:I think the thing that stands out to me is that not so just people like the rest of us trying to do their best in this world, given the codes that they've been dealt, and to Yeah, to try to demonize them or stigmatize what they're going through, is only harmful to them to the community? society. So yeah, you know, I think when I, when I think about how to best support Sargon, any other compassion and respect that you would expect for anybody else.
Bly:And new, do you have similar advice for map partners?
Timothy:I would, I would agree with the exact advice. I mean, we're, we should really take time to understand that, you know, actually, once you one thing that Tim and I learned is, when you have an actual conversation with people face to face, it's a much more different interaction. And usually, than what you see online, as well. Yeah. And I think that they're just people just like everybody
Bly:Thank you. That's, that's great.
Uhura:I think one thing that stands out to me is that this part of our relationship is not what defines us or our relationship. It's a small, though significant, sometimes part of a relationship. And it's really nice that we can talk about it openly as a couple. And as honesty really means a lot to me.
Zurc Bolzano:Yeah, I think it means a lot to me that I can be honest,
Bly:that's a big theme that's come through in the discussion really, that the the ability to be honest, not just once, at the point at which the map is honest, and comes out, which is obviously a very hard kind of honesty. But there has to be the ability to be sort of honest, in return, and people are entitled to their sort of honest reactions, which sometimes are of shock and sometimes what through a lot from the discussion. And also, you know, it's, it's very interesting that the honesty can continue going outside of the the couple or it's Or it can be a case of having to keep that secret. And I don't think anybody thinks there's a particular right answer about that. You know, we've just had some two examples of how people have dealt with it here as well. It's been a really from their perspective. So I want to thank you both very much for being so honest, and for being so frank about what it involves to to love a map. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Timothy:You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you.
Zurc Bolzano:Thank you for listening.
Bly:So So we've come to the end of this episode of On treated and we've discovered that in the absence of sometimes formal treatment, which not all of us get, sometimes we have to rely on a partner to give us to give us some of the comfort that we need to deal with this, this business of minor attraction. Thank you very much for joining us. I'm been Bly read this whole time, even even while I